Hospital Management Module Final Version

Hospital Management Module Final Version

Govinda Bolo Hari Gopal Bolo

The Last Meal Of Buddha- How did Buddhasl Died

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How did the Buddha die?
Binh Anson
Here is another Version worth understanding
His death is steeoed in mystry !!
Go ahaead and read !!
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I. THE SHORT ANSWER
The Buddha died of old age, when he was eighty years old. The death was triggered by his body reaction to a dish of wild mushroom. He died peacefully and mindfully.


II. THE LONG ANSWER
In order to know the last day of the Buddha, we should read books on his life or better still, read the recorded suttas. The best source is the Maha Parinibbana Sutta (Kinh Dda.i Ba't Nie^'t Ba`n) from the Pali collection of the Digha Nikaya (Tru+o+`ng Bo^. Kinh), or the Wandering Sutra (Kinh Du Ha`nh) from the Sanskrit/Chinese collection of the Digha Agama (Tru+o+`ng A Ha`m). There is a separate Chinese sutra, The Maha Parinirvana Sutra, which was also translated into Vietnamese, but this script has been widely regarded as being composed at a very late stage (about 200-400 AD).


II.1. References
In English:

[1] Last Days of the Buddha - The Maha Parinibbana Sutta, 1988. Sister Vajira and Francis Story. Buddhist Publication Society, Sri Lanka.

[2] Thus I have heard - The Long Discourses of the Buddha (Digha Nikaya), 1987. Maurice Walshe. Wisdom Publication, USA.

[3] The Buddha and his teachings, 1980. Narada Mahathera. Buddhist Publication Society, Sri Lanka (Ddu+'c Pha^.t va` Pha^.t Pha'p, translated by Pha.m Kim Kha'nh).

In Vietnamese:

[4] Tru+o+`ng Bo^. Kinh (Digha Nikaya), 1991. Thi'ch Minh Cha^u\. Vie^.n Nghie^n cu+'u Pha^.t ho.c, Vietnam (translated from the Pali script).

[5] Tru+o+`ng A Ha`m (Digha Agama), 1991. Thi'ch Tri' Ti.nh. Vie^.n Nghie^ n cu+'u Pha^.t ho.c, Vietnam (translated from the Chinese script).

[6] Ddu+o+`ng xu+a ma^y tra('ng, 1992. Thi'ch Nha^'t Ha.nh. La' Bo^'i, USA (English version: Old path, White cloud).

Personally, I prefer Ref. [1]. The sutta was beautifully translated into English with thorough footnotes and explanation. It is a small and inexpensive booklet (US$ 3.50 plus postage), which can be obtained from:

The Buddhist Publication Society
54, Sangharaja Mawatha
Kandy. SRI LANKA

or in USA:

Bodhi Tree Bookstore
8585 Melrose Avenue
West Hollywood. CA 90069
Tel. (310) 659 1733

II.2. The last meal
The last meal offered to the Buddha was prepared by Cunda, the metalworker [1]:

"... And Cunda, the metalworker, after the night had passed, had choice food, hard and soft, prepared in his abode, together with a quantity of sukara-maddava, ..."

".... And with the sukara-maddava prepared by him (Cunda), he served the Blessed One; and with the other food, hard and soft, he served the community of bikkhus."

"Thereafter, the Blessed One spoke to Cunda, saying: "Whatever, Cunda, is left over of the sukara-maddava, bury that in a pit. For I do not see in all this world, with its gods, Maras and Brahmas, among the host of ascetics and brhamins, gods and men, anyone who could eat it and entirely digest it except the Tathagata alone."

In the translation from the Pali script, "SUKARA-MADDAVA" was not translated in the English version [1; 2; 3], although Walshe translated it as "pig's delight" [2]. However, the Vietnamese versions contain the words "na^'m" (mushroom) and "mo^.c nhi~" (edible black fungus) [4; 5; 6]. In some other books, which I forgot the exact titles, the terms "pork meat, boar meat" were used. According to many Pali scholars [1; 2]:

sukara: pig, boar
maddava: delicate, well-liked, soft, tender

So, sukara-maddava may nean:

(1) the tender parts of a pig or boar
(2) what is enjoyed by pigs or boars, which may be referred to a mushroom or truffle, or a yam or tuber.

In some other commentaries, sukara-maddava was also mentioned as a "medicinal plant" in classic Indian medicine, or as "young bamboo shoots trampled by pigs".

All the current scholar monks agree with the meaning of "mushroom or truffle", and I concur with them. According to the monastic rules, the monks are not allowed to eat meat from animals specifically killed to make food for them. The meaning of sukara-maddava as "pork/boar meat" is thus not appropriate here.

II.3. The last hours
3.1 "And soon after the Blessed One had eaten the meal provided by Cunda, a dire sickness fell upon him, even dysentery, and he suffered sharp and deadly pains. But the Blessed One endured them mindfully, clearly understanding and unperturbed.

" Then the blessed One spoke to the venerable Ananda, saying: "Come, Ananda, let us go to Kusinara."

3.2 He was thirsty and asked Ananda to get some water from a nearby stream which was quite muddy and turbid. However, when Ananda took the bowl to the stream, the water became clear, pure and pleasant.

3.3 He met Pukkusa of the Malla clan, taught him about the state of calmness of those who had gone forth from the world (ie. the monks and nuns). Pukkasa was impressed, asked to be ordained, and took refuge in the Triple Gems. It is noted that in this part of the Sutta, as well as in many other Discourses, the Pali recitation of the 3 Refuges which is still recited in many Theravadin countries in present time was presented:

Buddham Saranam Gachami (I take the refuge in the Buddha)
Dhammam Saranam Gachami (I take the refuge in the Dhamma)
Sangham Saranam Gachami (I take the refuge in the Sangha)

3.4 When ordaining Pukkusa, the Buddha and Ananda accepted new robes offered by him. When Ananda helped the Buddha changing robe, he observed the skin of the Buddha becoming exceedingly clear and radiant. The Buddha told him that there were only two occasions when the Tathagata's body was in such state: Nibanna (Enlightenment) and Parinibanna (Final Passing Away). The Buddha told Ananda that He would enter Parinibbana in the last watch of that night.

3.5 He then took a rest, and advised Ananda to tell Cunda, the metalworker, not to have any remorse because of that last meal. He told Ananda that there were two equally important meals which had been offered to him: the one offered to him before Enlightenment and the one before Parinibanna.

He then spoke of the importance of generosity, moral conduct, and mind training (Dana, Sila, Bhavana - Bo^' thi', Tri` gio+'i, Thie^`n ddi.nh):

"Who gives, his virtues shall increase;
Who is self-curbed, no hatred bears;
Whoso is skilled in virtues, evil shuns,
And by the rooting out of lust and hate
And all delusion, comes to be at peace".

3.6 The Buddha went to Mallas's sala grove, in the vicinity of Kusinara, and asked Ananda to prepare a couch for him, between the twin sala trees, with the head to the north. He then instructed Ananda on how to respect and venerate Him:

"... Whatever bikkhu or bikkhuni, layman or laywoman, abides in the Dhamma, lives uprightly in the Dhamma, walks in the way of the Dhamma, it is by such a one that the Tathagata is respected, venerated, esteemed, worshipped and honoured in the highest degree. Therefore, Ananda, thus should youtrain yourselves: 'We shall abide by the Dhamma, live uprightly in the Dhamma, walk in the way of the Dhamma.' ..."

3.7 The Budhha advised all beings present at the site, including many deities, that:

"Impermanent are all compounded things. How could this (his imminent death) be otherwise?"

3.8 The Buddha advised Ananda on the four places a pious person should visit and look upon with feelings of reverence: His birth place, the place where He became enlightened, the place where He gave the first discourse (Setting the Dhamma Wheel in Motion), the place where He passed away.

3.9 When Ananda asked how should he treat the Buddha's body after death, the Buddha said:

"Do not hinder yourselves, Ananda, to honour the body of the Tathagata. Rather you should strive, Ananda, and be zealous on your own behalf, for your own good. Unflinchingly, ardently and resolutely you should apply yourselves to your own good."

3.10 When Ananda was weeping, the Buddha told him:

"Enough, Ananda! Do not grieve, do not lament. For have I not taught from the very beginning that with all that is dear and beloved, there must be change, separation and severence? Of that which is born, come into being, compounded, and subject to decay, how can one say: 'May it not come to dissolution' ? There can be no such state of things ... Now you should put forth energy, and soon you too will be free from the taints."

3.11 The Buddha taught Sabhadda, a wandering ascetic, about the Noble Eightfold Path, and admitted him into the Order. Sabhada was the last disciple.

3.12 The Buddha told Ananda and other bikkhus that after his death, they should abide to his teaching as their teacher:

"Ananda, what I have taught and explained to you as Dhamma and discipline will be your teacher when I am gone."

3.13 The Buddha asked all the monks whether they had any doubts or uncertainty about the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha, or about the path or the practice. He asked them three times but they all kept silent.

3.14 And the Buddha addressed the monks, saying:

" Behold now, bikkhus, I declare to you: all conditioned things are of a nature to decay. Strive on with earnestness."

These were the last words of the Tathagata.

3.15 The Buddha then entered the first jhana, the second jhana, the third jhana, the fourth jhana. Then he entered the sphere of Infinite Space, the sphere of Infinite Conciousness, the sphere of Nothingness, the sphere of Neither-perception-nor-nonperception. Then, he attained the cessation of feeling and perception.

Leaving the attainment of cessation of feeling and perception, he entered the sphere of Neither-perception-nor-nonperception, the sphere of Nothingness, the sphere of Infinite Conciousness, the sphere of Infinite Space. Then he entered the fourth jhana, the third jhana, the second jhana, the first jhana.

Leaving the first jhana, he entered the second jhana, the third jhana, the fourth jhana.Leaving the fourth jhana, the Blessed One immediately passed away.

II.4. What can I learn ?
Every time I read the Maha Parinibbana Sutta [1; 2], I always discover something new to my understanding of the Dhamma:

(1) The Buddha reached Enlightenment when he was 35 years old, but he still lived on to the age of 80, to teach the Dhamma and the path to liberation. His body, however, was just like our body consisting of the five heaps (skandas: form, feeling, perception, volition, and conciousness), and thus subjected to decay and death.

(2) The food prepared by Cunda, the metalworker, was not poisonous, but could be regarded as a catalyst triggering his death.

(3) Enduring the pain with calmness and mindfulness, he continued to teach the Dhamma to his followers to the last moment, and accepted two more disciples.

(4) He was also very thorough in instructing Ananda not to blame Cunda for the last meal, by summarising his teaching in Generosity - Moral Conduct - Mind Training, instructing the people to revere the Dhamma, instructing the monks how to keep the Dhamma alive as their guide and teacher after his death, and also made sure that his teachings were fully understood by his disciples by asking them three times. His final words were again a Dhamma on the impermanent nature of things, and an advice to his disciples to continue their training effort.

(5) He approached the final moment with dignity, peace and mindfulness as he had always advocated: entering into all stages of meditative absorptions, and without attachment, leaving them behind before passing away.

Binh Anson,
Perth, Western Australia
September 1996


Second VERSION
Here is another Version worth understanding
His death is steeoed in mystry !!
Go ahaead and read !!
------
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How the Buddha died
Venerable Dr Mettanando Bhikkhu
Bangkok Post, May 15, 2001


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During Wesak Day, we are informed that it is also the day Buddha attained Parinibbana. But not many know how the Buddha died. Ancient texts weave two stories about the Lord Buddha's death. Was it planned and willed by the Buddha, or was it food poisoning, or something else altogether? Here's an account

-ooOoo-

The Mahaparinibbana Sutta, from the Long Discourse of Pali Tipitaka, is without doubt the most reliable source for details on the death of Siddhattha Gotama (BCE 563-483), the Lord Buddha. It is composed in a narrative style that allows readers to follow the story of the last days of the Buddha, beginning a few months before he died.

To understand what really happened to the Buddha is not a simple matter, though. The sutta, or discourse, paints two conflicting personalities of the Buddha, one overriding the other.

The first personality was that of a miracle worker who beamed himself and his entourage of monks across the Ganges River (D II, 89), who had a divine vision of the settlement of gods on earth (D II, 87), who could live until the end of the world on condition that someone invite him to do so (D II, 103), who determined the time of his own death (D II, 105), and whose death was glorified by the shower of heavenly flowers and sandal powder and divine music (D II, 138).

The other personality was that of an aged being who was failing in health (D II, 120), who almost lost his life because of a severe pain during his last retreat at Vesali (D II, 100), and who was forced to come to terms with his unexpected illness and death after consuming a special cuisine offered by his generous host.

These two personalities take turns emerging in different parts of the narrative. Moreover, there also appear to be two explanations of the Buddha's cause of death: One is that the Buddha died because his attendant, Ananda, failed to invite him to live on to the age of the world or even longer (D II, 117). The other is that he died by a sudden illness which began after he ate what is known as "Sukaramaddava" (D II, 127-157).

The former story was probably a legend, or the result of a political struggle within the Buddhist community during a stage of transition, whereas the latter sounds more realistic and accurate in describing a real life situation that happened in the Buddha's last days.

A number of studies have focused on the nature of the special cuisine that the Buddha ate during his last meal as being the agent of his death. However, there is also another approach based on the description of the symptoms and signs given in the sutta, which modern medical knowledge can shed light on.

In another mural painting at Wat Ratchasittharam, the Lord Buddha is approaching death, but he still takes time to answer questions put forth by the ascetic Subhadda, his last convert who, after being admitted to the Buddhist Order, became an arahant (enlightened monk).

What we know

In the Mahaparinibbana Sutta, we are told that the Buddha became ill suddenly after he ate a special delicacy, Sukaramaddava, literally translated as "soft pork", which had been prepared by his generous host, Cunda Kammaraputta. The name of the cuisine has attracted the attention of many scholars, and it has been the focus of academic research on the nature of the meal or ingredients used in the cooking of this special dish.

The sutta itself provides details concerning the signs and symptoms of his illness in addition to some reliable information about his circumstances over the previous four months, and these details are also medically significant.

The sutta begins with King Ajatasattus' plot to conquer a rival state, Vajji. The Buddha had journeyed to Vajji to enter his last rainy-season retreat. It was during this retreat that he fell ill. The symptoms of the illness were sudden, severe pain.

However, the sutta provides no description of the location and character of his pain. It mentions his illness briefly, and says that the pain was intense, and almost killed him.

Subsequently, the Buddha was visited by Mara, the God of Death, who invited him to pass away. The Buddha did not accept the invitation right away. It was only after Ananda, his attendant, failed to recognise his hint for an invitation to remain that he died. This piece of the message, though tied up with myth and supernaturalism, gives us some medically significant information. When the sutta was composed, its author was under the impression that the Buddha died, not because of the food he ate, but because he already had an underlying illness that was serious and acute-and had the same symptoms of the disease that finally killed him.

The Timing

Theravada Buddhist tradition has adhered to the assumption that the historical Buddha passed away during the night of the full moon in the lunar month of Visakha (which falls sometime in May to June). But the timing contradicts information given in the sutta, which states clearly that the Buddha died soon after the rainy-season retreat, most likely during the autumn or mid-winter, that is, November to January.

A description of the miracle of the unseasonal blooming of leaves and flowers on the sala trees, when the Buddha was laid down between them, indicates the time frame given in the sutta.

Autumn and winter, however, are seasons that are not favourable for the growth of mushrooms, which some scholars believe to be the source of the poison that the Buddha ate during his last meal.

Diagnosis

The sutta tells us that the Buddha felt ill immediately after eating the Sukaramaddava. Since we do not know anything about the nature of this food, it is difficult to name it as the direct cause of the Buddha's illness. But from the descriptions given, the onset of the illness was quick.

While eating, he felt there was something wrong with the food and he suggested his host have the food buried. Soon afterward, he suffered severe stomach pain and passed blood from his rectum.

We can reasonably assume that the illness started while he was having his meal, making him think there was something wrong with the unfamiliar delicacy. Out of his compassion for others, he had it buried.

Was food poisoning the cause of the illness? It seems unlikely. The symptoms described do not indicate food poisoning, which can be very acute, but would hardly cause diarrhoea with blood. Usually, food poisoning caused by bacteria does not manifest itself immediately, but takes an incubation period of two to 12 hours to manifest itself, normally with acute diarrhoea and vomiting, but not the passage of blood.

Another possibility is chemical poisoning, which also has an immediate effect, but it is unusual for chemical poisoning to cause severe intestinal bleeding. Food poisoning with immediate intestinal bleeding could only have been caused by corrosive chemicals such as strong acids, which can easily lead to immediate illness. But corrosive chemicals should have caused bleeding in the upper intestinal tract, leading to vomiting blood. None of these severe signs are mentioned in the text.

Peptic ulcer diseases can be excluded from the list of possible illnesses as well. In spite of the fact that their onset is immediate, they are seldom accompanied by bloody stool. A gastric ulcer with intestinal bleeding produces black stool when the ulcer penetrates a blood vessel. An ulcer higher up in the digestive tract would be more likely to manifest itself as bloody vomiting, not a passage of blood through the rectum.

Other evidence against this possibility is that a patient with a large gastric ulcer usually does not have an appetite. By accepting the invitation for lunch with the host, we can assume that the Buddha felt as healthy as any man in his early 80s would feel. Given his age we cannot rule out that the Buddha did not have a chronic disease, such as cancer or tuberculosis or a tropical infection such as dysentery or typhoid, which could have been quite common in the Buddha's time.

These diseases could produce bleeding of the lower intestine, depending on their location. They also agree with the history of his earlier illness during the retreat. But they can be ruled out, since they are usually accompanied by other symptoms, such as lethargy, loss of appetite, weight loss, growth or mass in the abdomen. None of these symptoms were mentioned in the sutta.

A large haemorrhoid can cause severe rectal bleeding, but it is unlikely that a haemorrhoid could cause severe abdominal pain unless it is strangulated. But then it would have greatly disturbed the walking of the Buddha to the house of his host, and rarely is haemorrhoid bleeding triggered by a meal.

Mesenteric infarction

A disease that matches the described symptoms-accompanied by acute abdominal pain and the passage of blood, commonly found among elderly people, and triggered by a meal-is mesenteric infarction, caused by an obstruction of the blood vessels of the mesentery. It is lethal. Acute mesenteric ischaemia (a reduction in the blood supply to the mesentery) is a grave condition with a high rate of mortality.

The mesentery is a part of the intestinal wall that binds the whole intestinal tract to the abdominal cavity. An infarction of the vessels of the mesentery normally causes the death of the tissue in a large section of the intestinal tract, which results in a laceration of the intestinal wall.

This normally produces severe pain in the abdomen and the passage of blood. The patient usually dies of acute blood loss. This condition matches the information given in the sutta. It is also confirmed later when the Buddha asked Ananda to fetch some water for him to drink, indicating intense thirst.

As the story goes, Ananda refused, as he saw no source for clean water. He argued with the Buddha that the nearby stream had been muddied by a large caravan of carts. But the Buddha insisted he fetch water anyway.

A question arises at this point: Why did the Buddha not go to the water himself, instead of pressing his unwilling attendant to do so? The answer is simple. The Buddha was suffering from shock caused by severe blood loss. He could no longer walk, and from then to his death bed he was most likely carried on a stretcher.

If this was indeed the situation, the sutta remains silent about the Buddha's travelling to his deathbed, possibly because the author felt that it would be an embarrassment for the Buddha. Geographically, we know that the distance between the place believed to be the house of Cunda and the place where the Buddha died was about 15 to 20 kilometres. It is not possible for a patient with such a grave illness to walk such a distance.

More likely, what happened was that the Buddha was carried on a stretcher by a group of monks to Kusinara (Kushinagara).

It remains a point of debate whether the Buddha really determined to pass away at this city, presumably not much larger than a town. From the direction of the Buddha's journey, given in the sutta, he was moving north from Rajagaha. It is possible that he did not intend to die there, but in the town where he was born, which would have taken a period of three months to reach.

From the sutta, it is clear that the Buddha was not anticipating his sudden illness, or else he would not have accepted the invitation of his host. Kusinara was probably the nearest town where he could find a doctor to take care of him. It is not difficult to see a group of monks hurriedly carrying the Buddha on a stretcher to the nearest town to save his life.

Before passing away, the Buddha told Ananda that Cunda was not to be blamed and that his death was not caused by eating Sukaramaddava. The statement is significant. The meal was not the direct cause of his death. The Buddha knew that the symptom was a repeat of an experience he'd had a few months earlier, the one which had almost killed him.

Sukaramaddava, no matter the ingredients or how it was cooked, was not the direct cause of his sudden illness.

Progression of the disease

Mesenteric infarction is a disease commonly found among elderly people, caused by the obstruction of the main artery that supplies the middle section of the bowel-the small intestine-with blood. The most common cause of the obstruction is the degeneration of the wall of the blood vessel, the superior mesenteric artery, causing severe abdominal pain, also known as abdominal angina.

Normally, the pain is triggered by a large meal, which requires a higher flow of blood to the digestive tract. As the obstruction persists, the bowel is deprived of its blood supply, which subsequently leads to an infarction, or gangrene, of a section of the intestinal tract. This in turn results in a laceration of the intestinal wall, profuse bleeding into the intestinal tract, and then bloody diarrhoea.

The disease gets worse as the liquid and content of the intestine oozes out into the peritoneal cavity, causing peritonitis or inflammation of the abdominal walls. This is already a lethal condition for the patient, who often dies due to the loss of blood and other fluid. If it is not corrected by surgery, the disease often progresses to septic shock due to bacterial toxins infiltrating the blood stream.

Retrospective analysis

From the diagnosis given above, we can be rather certain that the Buddha suffered from mesenteric infarction caused by an occlusion of the superior mesenteric artery. This was the cause of the pain that almost killed him a few months earlier during his last rainy-season retreat.

With the progress of the illness, some of the mucosal lining of his intestine sloughed off, and this site became the origin of the bleeding. Arteriosclerosis, the hardening of the vessel wall caused by ageing, was the cause of the arterial occlusion, a small blockage that did not result in bloody diarrhoea, but is a symptom, also known to us as abdominal angina.

He had his second attack while he was eating the Sukaramaddava. The pain was probably not intense in the beginning, but made him feel that there was something wrong. Suspicious about the nature of the food, he asked his host to have it all buried, so that others might not suffer from it.

Soon, the Buddha realised that the illness was serious, with the passage of blood and more severe pain in his abdomen. Due to the loss of blood, he went into shock. The degree of dehydration was so severe that he could not maintain himself any longer and he had to take shelter at a tree along the way.

Feeling very thirsty and exhausted, he got Ananda to collect water for him to drink, even though he knew that the water was muddied. It was there that he collapsed until his entourage carried him to the nearest town, Kusinara, where there would have been a chance of finding a doctor or lodging for him to recover in.

It was probably true that the Buddha got better after drinking to replace his fluid loss, and resting on the stretcher. The experience with the symptoms told him that his sudden illness was the second attack of an existing disease. He told Ananda that the meal was not the cause of his illness, and that Cunda was not to blame.

A patient with shock, dehydration and profuse blood loss usually feels very cold. This was the reason why he told his attendant to prepare a bed using four sheets of ifsanghati nf. According to Buddhist monastic discipline, a ifsanghati nfis a cloak, or extra piece of robe, very large, the size of a bed sheet, which the Budd ha allowed monks and nuns to wear in winter.

This information reflects how cold the Buddha felt because of his loss of blood. Clinically, it is not possible for a patient who is in a state of shock with severe abdominal pain, most likely peritonitis, pale and shivering, to be ambulatory.

The Buddha was most likely put into a lodging, where he was nursed and warmed, located in the city of Kusinara. This view is also confirmed with the description of Ananda who, weeping, swoons and holds onto the door of his lodge after learning that the Buddha was about to pass away.

Normally, a patient with mesenteric infarction could live 10 to 20 hours. From the sutta we learn that the Buddha died about 15 to 18 hours after the attack. During that time, his attendants would have tried their best to comfort him, for example, by warming the room where he was resting, or by dripping some water into his mouth to quench his lingering thirst, or by giving him some herbal drinks. But it would be highly unlikely that a shivering patient would need someone to fan him as is described in the sutta.

Off and on, he may have recovered from a state of exhaustion, allowing him to continue his dialogues with a few people. Most of his last words could have been true, and they were memorised by generations of monks until they were transcribed. But finally, late into the night, the Buddha died during a second wave of septic shock. His illness stemmed from natural causes coupled with his age, just as it would for anyone else.

Conclusion

The hypothesis outlined above explains several scenes in the narrative of the sutta, namely, the pressuring of Ananda to fetch water, the Buddha's request for a fourfold cloak for his bed, the ordering of the meal to be buried, and so on.

It also reveals another possibility of the actual means of transportation of the Buddha to Kusinara and the site of his death bed. Sukaramaddava, whatever its nature, was unlikely to have been the direct cause of his illness. The Buddha did not die by food poisoning. Rather, it was the size of the meal, relatively too large for his already troubled digestive tract, that triggered the second attack of mesenteric infarction that brought an end to his life./.

Dr Mettanando Bhikkhu was a physician before entering the monkhood. He is currently based at Wat Raja Orasaram, Thailand.

-ooOoo-

Here is Another version froom Wikipedia

The time of Gautama's birth and death are uncertain: most early 20th-century historians dated his lifetime as c. 563 BCE to 483 BCE,[3] but more recent opinion dates his death to between 486 and 483 BCE or, according to some, between 411 and 400 BCE.[4][5] UNESCO lists Lumbini, Nepal, as a world heritage site and birthplace of Gautama Buddha.[6][7] There are also claims about birth place of Gautama Buddha to be Kapilavastu at Piprahwa, Uttar Pradesh, or Kapileswara, Orissa, modern India.[8][9][10][11][12] He later taught throughout regions of eastern India such as Magadha and Kośala.[13][14]

Mahaparinirvana
The Buddha's entry into Parinirvana. Sanskrit manuscript. Nālandā, Bihar, India. Pāla period.
The sharing of the relics of the Buddha, Zenyōmitsu-Temple Museum, TokyoAccording to the Mahaparinibbana Sutta of the Pali canon, at the age of 80, the Buddha announced that he would soon reach Parinirvana, or the final deathless state, and abandon his earthly body. After this, the Buddha ate his last meal, which he had received as an offering from a blacksmith named Cunda. Falling violently ill, Buddha instructed his attendant Ānanda to convince Cunda that the meal eaten at his place had nothing to do with his passing and that his meal would be a source of the greatest merit as it provided the last meal for a Buddha.[43] Mettanando and von Hinüber argue that the Buddha died of mesenteric infarction, a symptom of old age, rather than food poisoning.[44] The precise contents of the Buddha's final meal are not clear, due to variant scriptural traditions and ambiguity over the translation of certain significant terms; the Theravada tradition generally believes that the Buddha was offered some kind of pork, while the Mahayana tradition believes that the Buddha consumed some sort of truffle or other mushroom. These may reflect the different traditional views on Buddhist vegetarianism and the precepts for monks and nuns.

Ananda protested the Buddha's decision to enter Parinirvana in the abandoned jungles of Kuśināra (present-day Kushinagar, India) of the Malla kingdom. Buddha, however, is said to have reminded Ananda how Kushinara was a land once ruled by a righteous wheel-turning king that resounded with joy:

44. Kusavati, Ananda, resounded unceasingly day and night with ten sounds—the trumpeting of elephants, the neighing of horses, the rattling of chariots, the beating of drums and tabours, music and song, cheers, the clapping of hands, and cries of "Eat, drink, and be merry!"
The Buddha then asked all the attendant Bhikkhus to clarify any doubts or questions they had. They had none. According to Buddhist scriptures, he then finally entered Parinirvana. The Buddha's final words are reported to have been: "All composite things pass away. Strive for your own liberation with diligence." His body was cremated and the relics were placed in monuments or stupas, some of which are believed to have survived until the present. For example, The Temple of the Tooth or "Dalada Maligawa" in Sri Lanka is the place where what some believe to be the relic of the right tooth of Buddha is kept at present.

Accordingto the Pāli historical chronicles of Sri Lanka, the Dīpavaṃsa and Mahāvaṃsa, the coronation of Aśoka (Pāli: Asoka) is 218 years after the death of Buddha. According to two textual records in Chinese (十八部論 and 部執異論), the coronation of Aśoka is 116 years after the death of Buddha. Therefore, the time of Buddha's passing is either 486 BCE according to Theravāda record or 383 BCE according to Mahayana record. However, the actual date traditionally accepted as the date of the Buddha's death in Theravāda countries is 544 or 543 BCE, because the reign of Aśoka was traditionally reckoned to be about 60 years earlier than current estimates.

At his death, the Buddha is famously believed to have told his disciples to follow no leader. Mahakasyapa was chosen by the sangha to be the chairman of the First Buddhist Council, with the two chief disciples Maudgalyayana and Sariputta having died before the Buddha

Global Poverty -A World Bank Perspective

Poverty---The Great Plague gulping the Globe !!

PovertyNet
Poverty and Health
Poverty Reduction Strategy


An Analysis halfing it by 2015 with 1990 stats



At A Glance

· The world remains on track to meet the first Millennium Development Goal (MDG) target of halving the 1990 poverty rate by 2015, which has been at the center of the global effort to fight extreme poverty and hunger. Based on this year’s World Bank projections, the number of people living on less than $1.25 a day is projected to be 883 million in 2015, lower than the previous estimate of 918 million.

· The poverty rate declined to 25 percent of the global population in 2005, compared with 42 percent in 1990 and 52 percent in 1981. By 2015, that number is expected to drop to less than 15 percent.

· Rising food prices have driven an estimated 44 million people into poverty in developing countries between June and December 2010, as food prices rose to near 2008 levels. We expect more challenges ahead, given the recent series of global economic crises and spikes in food prices.



Poverty: Recent Estimates and Outlook

Between 1981 and 2005, the share of the developing world’s population living below $1.25 a day was halved from 52 to 25 percent. This amounts to a decline of one percentage point per year in the aggregate extreme poverty rate, reducing the number of poor by 500 million (from 1.9 billion to 1.4 billion) during that period. Preliminary estimates suggest that the number of people living below $1.25 a day likely dropped by an additional 200 million between 2005 and 2008, to 1.2 billion people.[1]



Extreme poverty worldwide is projected to drop to 883 million (14.4 percent) by 2015, according to the World Bank’s Global Monitoring Report 2011. This means the developing world remains on track to achieve the MDG target to reduce by half the 1990 extreme poverty rate (42 percent of the global population) by 2015. However, low-income countries, particularly fragile states and those in sub-Saharan Africa, tend to lag behind middle-income countries in their progress toward reaching the MDGs.



The decline in poverty between 1981 and 2005 varied considerably across regions. Led by China, the East Asia and Pacific Region made dramatic progress, with poverty incidence dropping from 78 percent to 17 percent, using the $1.25 a day poverty line at 2005 prices. At the other end of the spectrum is Sub-Saharan Africa, which saw only a modest decline in the poverty rate for $1.25 a day between 1981 and 2005. As a result, due to population growth, the number of poor people living in Sub-Saharan Africa almost doubled and its share of the world’s poor increased from 11 percent to 27 percent during this period.



The poverty rate fell in South Asia, Latin America and the Caribbean, Middle East, and North Africa during the same period, although the number of the poor remained static (Figure 1). A less frugal standard of $2 per person per day is more appropriate for regions such as Latin America and the Caribbean, and Eastern Europe and Central Asia. The share of global population living below $2 a day (at 2005 prices) fell from 70 percent in 1981 to 47 percent in 2005. But because of population growth, the number of people living below that line remained about 2.5 billion.





Figure 1.

Poverty incidence at $1.25 or less a day

(1981-2005)








Figure 2.

Population in extreme poverty (1981-2005)





How the World Bank is Fighting Poverty



At the heart of the Bank’s work is its focus on poverty reduction. In addition to causing hunger and malnutrition, poverty makes people vulnerable to shocks, such as the global economic crisis, climate change and natural disasters. The World Bank seeks to reduce poverty by supporting the design and implementation of country poverty-reduction strategies through a variety of analytical and lending instruments. It aims to expand growth opportunities, reduce vulnerability to shocks, and improve the poor’s access to basic services.



With less than four years to go, achieving the global goals by 2015 will be a challenge, made harder by the global economic crisis and other shocks. For example, while per capita real growth rates in low-income economies show signs of recovery from the global financial crisis, they are still down from the pre-crisis level. The recent rise in the Bank’s food price index in 2010 - to levels near its June 2008 peak — is raising concerns about the affordability of food for the poorer segments of developing countries. According to Bank estimates, 44 million more people are likely to have become poor between June and December 2010 because of the higher food prices. In response to the emerging challenges, the Bank prepared a new strategy that aims to foster multi-polar growth, respond effectively to complex global interactions, and better manage and anticipate potential shocks and new crises.



Country-Led Development Strategies



Many developing countries have prepared national strategies to boost their effort to combat poverty. Framed against a long-term development vision, in many cases these strategies set medium-term targets for progress toward the MDGs and related development outcomes. They also define clear national plans and priorities for achieving those targets, linking policy agendas to medium-term fiscal frameworks. As of June 2010, 67 low and lower-middle income countries prepared Poverty Reduction Strategy Papers (PRSPs) and 35 of them already produced the second generation of PRSPs. Also, many middle income countries set poverty reduction as targets or included different dimensions of poverty in their development objectives. The Bank aligns its activities to these national strategies through its Country Assistance Strategies or Country Partnership Strategies, which serve as a basis for harmonization with other development partners. Recent examples of working with development partners include the Bank’s close collaboration with U.N. agencies on a common strategy to confront the food crisis, and coordination with other global financial institutions (such as the IMF) in assisting countries hit hard by the financial crisis.



For more information on poverty, see: www.worldbank.org/poverty and http://econ.worldbank.org/povcalnet. For the latest World Bank poverty research, see: http://econ.worldbank.org/programs/poverty



Contacts:

Alejandra Viveros and Merrell Tuck

(202) 473-4306 and (202) 473-9516

aviveros@worldbank.org and mtuckprimdahl@worldbank.org



Updated July 2011













--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] The global poverty estimate for 2008 is preliminary and will be updated further when additional data becomes available. Gaps in the regional coverage of 2007-2009 household surveys, particularly in South Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa, preclude a more accurate estimation of global and regional poverty in 2008. Efforts are under way to close remaining gaps and to update the estimates by the end of 2011.










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AurungZeb's Last Letter ---FAREWELL

Indian History Sourcebook:
The Great Moghul Aurangzeb
Farewell, 1707 CE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Robinson Introduction]: Aurangzeb, who died in 1707, was the last Great Moghul of importance.

Health to you!

My heart is near you. Old age is arrived: weakness subdues me, and strength has forsaken all my members. I came a stranger into this world and a stranger I depart. I know nothing of myself, what I am, or for what I am destined. The instant which has passed in power has left only sorrow behind it. I have not been the guardian and protector of the empire. My valuable time has been passed vainly. I had a patron in my own dwelling [i.e., conscience], but his glorious light was unseen by my dim sight. Life is not lasting; there is no vestige of departed breath, and all hopes from futurity are lost. The fever has left me; but nothing remains of me but skin and bone. . . The camp and followers, helpless and frightened, are like myself, full of alarms, restless as quicksilver. Separated from their lord, they know not if they have a master or not.

I brought nothing into this world, and, except the infirmities of man, carry nothing out. I have a dread for my salvation, and with what torments I may be punished. Though I have strong reliance on the mercies and bounties of God, yet, regarding my actions, fear will not quit me; but when I am gone reflection will not remain. Come then what may, I have launched my vessel in the waves. Though Providence will protect the camp, yet, regarding appearances, the endeavors of my sons are indispensable. Give my last prayers to my grandson, whom I cannot see, but the desire affects me. The Began [i.e., his daughter] appears afflicted; but God is the only judge of hearts. The foolish thoughts of women produce nothing but disappointment.

Farewell, farewell, farewell.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is the END os ALL Aurengzeb Died at ripe age of 89 her second daugher was at his side at the last breath
Some sya he fell from the stairs of a library and subsequently dies any way he DIED !! It is a fact

23rd March Martrydom Of Bhagat Singh -So the Christ Was Crucified

SHAHEED-E-AZAM BHAGAT SINGH’S STATEMENT BEFORE THE LAHORE HIGH COURT BENCH

Tomorrow is 23rd March, the day of martyrdom of the great son of India. This is the speech he delivered before the Lahore high court. Through this brilliant statement he demolished the basis of the Sessions Court judgment and emphasized the importance of motive. The motive of action, he argued, should be the main consideration while judging the offense of an accused

So The Christ Was Crucified


"MY LORDS,
We are neither lawyers nor masters of English language, nor holders of degrees. Therefore, please do not expect any oratorial speech from us. We therefore pray that instead of going into the language mistakes of our statement Your Lordships will try to understand the real sense of it.
Leaving other points to our lawyers, I will confine myself to one point only. The point is very important in this case. The point is as to what were our intentions sand to what extent we are guilty. This is a very complicated question and no one will be able to express before you that height to mental elevation which inspired us to think and act in a particular manner. We want that this should be kept in mind while assessing our intentions our offence. According to the famous jurist Solomon, one should not be punished for his criminal offence if his aim is not against law

We had submitted a written statement in the Sessions Court. That statement explains our aim and, as such, explains our intentions also. But the leaned judge dismissed it with one stroke of pen, saying that “generally the operation of law is not affected by how or why one committed the offense. In this country the aim of the offense is very rarely mentioned in legal commentaries.”
My Lords, our contention is that under the circumstances the learned judge ought to have judged us either by the result of our action or on the basis of the psychological part of our statement. But he did not take any of these factors into consideration.

The point to be considered is that the two bombs we threw in the Assembly did not harm anybody physically or economically. As such the punishment awarded to us is not only very harsh but revengeful also. Moreover, the motive knowing his psychology. And no one can do justice to anybody without taking his motive into consideration. If we ignore the motive, the biggest general of the words will appear like ordinary murderers; revenue officers will look like thieves and cheats. Even judges will be accused of murder. This way the entire social system and the civilisation will be reduced to murders, thefts and cheating. If we ignore the motive, the government will have no right to expect sacrifice from its people and its officials. Ignore the motive and every religious preacher will be dubbed as a preacher of falsehoods, and every prophet will be charged of misguiding crores of simple and ignorant people.

If we set aside the motive, then Jesus Christ will appear to be a man responsible for creating disturbances, breaking peace and preaching revolt, and will be considered to be a “dangerous personality” in the language of the law. But we worship him. He commands great respect in our hearts and his image creates vibrations of spiritualism amongst us. Why? Because the inspiration behind his actions was that of a high ideal. The rulers of that age could not recognise that high idealism. They only saw his outward actions. Nineteen centuries have passed since then. Have we not progressed during this period? Shall we repeat that mistake again? It that be so, then we shall have to admit that all the sacrifices of the mankind and all the efforts of the great martyrs were useless and it would appear as if we are still at the same place where we stood twenty centuries back.


From the legal point of view also, the question of motive is of special importance. Take the example of General Dyer. He resorted to firing and killed hundreds of innocent and unarmed people. But the military court did not order him to be shot. It gave him lakhs of rupees as award. Take another example. Shri Kharag Bahadur Singh, a young Gurkha, Killed a Marwari in Calcutta. If the motive be set aside, then Kharag Bahadur Singh ought to have been hanged. But he was awarded a mild sentence of a few years only. He was even released much before the expiry of his sentence. Was there any loophole in the law that he escaped capital punishment? Or, was the charge of murder not proved against him? Like us, he also accepted the full responsibility of his action, but he escaped death. He is free today. I ask Your Lordship, why was he not awarded capital punishment? His action was well calculated and well planned. From the motive end, his action was more serious and fatal than ours. He was awarded a mild punishment because his intentions were good. He was awarded a mild punishment because his intention were good. He saved the society from a dirty leech who had sucked the life-blood of so many pretty young girls. Kharag Singh was given a mild punishment just to uphold the formalities of the law.

This principle (that the law does not take motive into consideration – ed.) is quite absurd. This is against the basic principles of the law which declares that “the law is for man and not man for the law”. As such, why the same norms are not being applied to us also? It is quite clear that while convicting Kharag Singh his motive was kept in mind, otherwise a murderer can never escape the hangman’s noose. Are we being deprived of the ordinary advantage of the law because our offence is against the government, or because our action has a political importance?

My Lords, under these circumstances, please permit us to assert that a government which seeks shelter behind such mean methods has no right to exist. If it is exists, it is for the time being only, and that too with the blood of thousands of people on its head. If the law does not see the motive there can be no justice, nor can there be stable peace

Mixing of arsenic (poison) in the flour will not be considered to be a crime, provided its purpose is to kill rats. But if the purpose is to kill a man, it becomes a crime of murder. Therefore, such laws which do not stand the test of reason and which are against the principle of justice, should be abolished. Because of such unjust laws, many great intellectuals had to adopt the path of revolt

The facts regarding our case are very simple. We threw two bombs in the legislative Assembly on April 8, 1929. As a result of the explosion, a few persons received minor scratches. There was pandemonium in the chamber, hundreds of visitors and members of the Assembly ran out. Only my friend B.K. Dutt and myself remained seated in the visitors gallery and offered ourselves for arrest. We were tried for attempt to murder, and convicted for life. As mentioned above, as a result of the bomb explosion, only four or five persons were slightly injured and one bench got damaged. We offered ourselves for arrest without any resistance. TheSessions Judge admitted that we could have very easily escaped, had we had any intention like that. We accepted our offence and gave a statement explaining our position. We are not afraid of punishment. But we do not want that we should be wrongly understood. The judge remover a few paragraphs from our statement. This we consider to be harmful for our real position.

A proper study of the full text of our statement will make it clear that, according to us, our country is passing through a delicate phase. We saw the coming catastrophe and thought it proper to give a timely warning with a loud voice, and we gave the warning in the manner we thought proper. We may be wrong. Our line of thinking and that of the learned judge may be different, but that does not been that we be deprived of the permission to express our ideas, and wrong things be propagated in our names

In our statement we explained in detail what we mean by “Long Live Revolution” and “Down With Imperialism”. That formed the crux of our ideas. That portion was removed from our statement. Generally a wrong meaning is attributed to the word revolution. That is not our understanding. Bombs and pistols do not make revolution. That is not our understanding. Bombs and pistols do not make revolution. The sword of revolution is sharpened on the whetting-stone of ideas. This is what we wanted to emphasise. By revolution we mean the end of the miseries of capitalist wars. It was not proper to pronounce judgement without understanding our aims and objects and the process of achieving them. To associate wrong ideas with our names is out-and-out injustice.


It was very necessary to give the timely warning that the unrest of the people is increasing and that the malady may take a serious turn, if not treated in time and properly. If our warning is not heeded, no human power will be able to stop it. We took this step to give proper direction to the storm. We are serious students of history. We believe that, had the ruling powers acted correctly at the proper time, there would have been no bloody revolutions in France and Russia. Several big power of the world tried to check the storm of ideas and were sunk in the atmosphere of bloodshed. The ruling people cannot change the flow of the current. We wanted to give the first warning. Had we aimed at killing some important personalities, we would have failed in the attainment of our aim

My Lords, this was the aim and the spirit behind our action, and the result of the action corroborates our statement. There is one more point which needs elucidation, and that is regarding the strength of the bombs. Had we had no idea of the strength of the bombs, there would have been no question of our throwing them in the presence of our respected national leader like Pandit Motilal Nehru, Shri Kelkar, Shri Jayaker and Shri Jinnah. How could we have risked the lives of our leaders? After all we are not mad and, had we My Lords, this was the aim and the spirit behind our action, and the result of the action corroborates our statement. There is one more point which needs elucidation, and that is regarding the strength of the bombs. Had we had no idea of the strength of the bombs, there would have been no question of our throwing them in the presence of our respected national leader like Pandit Motilal Nehru, Shri Kelkar, Shri Jayaker and Shri Jinnah. How could we have risked the lives of our leaders? After all we are not mad and, had we been so, we would have certainly been sent to the lunatic asylum, instead of being put in jail. We had full knowledge about the strength of the bombs and that is why we acted with so much confidence. It was very easy to have thrown the bombs on the occupied benches, but it was difficult to have thrown them on unoccupied seats. Had we not of saner mind or had we been mentally unbalanced, the bombs would have fallen on occupied benches and not in empty places.

Therefore I would say that we should be rewarded for the courage we showed in carefully selecting the empty places. Under these conditions, My Lords, we think we have not been understood, My Lords, we think we have not been understood properly. We have not come before you to get our sentences reduced. We have come here to clarify our position. We want that we should not be given any unjust treatment, nor should any unjust opinion be pronounced about us. The question of punishment is of secondary importance before us."


So the Christ Was Crucified

How to get Traffic on your Website

How to get Traffic on your Website

Weight Loss Tips

How to Lose Weight Without Exercise
Published February 29, 2012 | By admin

How to Lose Weight Without Exercise!
Usually are not requirements exercising to shed weight for those who have this particular? This can be a easy shed weight extremely fast without having working out!

Working out lose weight quickly together with exercising looks like a daunting job for some men and women. Other individuals still find it simple, as well as the tastes folks that are certainly not actually active, the idea of having to maneuver around rapidly merely will not appear as well attractive in any way. Take into account the subsequent Three workout routines that you can carry out, also it can launch a healthier lifestyle right away.

To start with get yourself a golf ball involving some sort. For an additional alternative, a new football is best suited. While studying how to shed pounds fast along with exercising, it pays becoming a child once more. Make football with a recreation area and slowly and gradually jog by it and kick it ahead. The explanation for it is because it will force you to move ahead and also gently trot. Numerous rookies lose interest along with sprinting in the beginning, in case you could make a smaller online game, start upwards physical exercise more quickly than quickly. In the event that other individuals view you, you could possibly also join in a new get game of little league.

The next tip for you to working out lose weight fast is to go walking about your neighborhood. Living inside a excellent total area, acquire walks soon after dinner, each day whenever you wake up, and just regarding whenever you need. It doesn’t should be difficult; it requires a little bit of the force. Keep your own home for a good Quarter-hour and have the fast walk throughout. You may understand that the disposition enhances and you’re feeling much better overall later on.

The very last tip in regards to how to shed bodyweight quickly along with workout is to do simple workouts. Programs can begin using less than Five push-ups, A few sit-ups along with Five lunges. This is actually the bare minimum regarding movements that you can do to start out your work out there ideas. If you’re able to accomplish in addition to that amount, do it now. Try and carry out them everyday until you are able to do increase digits quickly and easily, and attempt to aim for three-way digits. The greater that you can do greater pounds you are going to lose and the much better you’ll experience on your own.

A few guidelines earlier mentioned are simply an illustration of this such a person can perform in order to stimulate them selves outside the enjoyment options in which hole much of the world. You won’t need to be a part of a new gym to find techniques to go one’s body. There’s a variety involving options, also it most starts with leaving in the enjoyment center.

A number of the questions on fat loss that overflow the web by simply ‘weighty people’ are to the possibility to lose weight quick without having exercising. And if that is the question in your head and then my own response is emphatically of course!

But just before you decide to hop over the rooftop, i’ll just tell that we’re not like various other professionals who merely show you issues that fails only to ensure you get excited.
Posted in Way to lose weight | Leave a comment
How Many Calories to Lose Weight?
Published February 29, 2012 | By admin

How Many Calories to Lose Weight?
No Need to Count Them

widgts

Did You Know?

This Day in History

Saving Money as a Family

Saving Money as a Family




Cheap Family living

A family doesn't mean everything has to cost more, together we will show you how you can find fun activities, great food and great ideas for the family that don't cost the earth







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Travails Of a sikh In finding a Wife in America -Jaffarnama

Finding a Wife
Here is from the blog serving well to answer the question of finding a mate with dynamics of dating in USA for an Indian Sikh . Has its travails treasures and torments all in between trenched in an ardour of adventure and Advice garnished with a platter od stoicism
Read and enjoy the blog in its entirety

Saturday, June 03, 2006
The chess of relationships
Years ago, I used to spend hours playing chess. I also read some poems by Keats etc as well as read some more recent books on relationships. I have also had the chance to learn about the popular culture of dating and the dynamics of relationships. My take on the whole issue was that most modern relationships are like a game of chess. People mull over their moves, they brainstorm about the other person's plans and then they make their moves all the time worrying about what the other person is going to do next. You can give these things the labels of "element of mystery", "my dignity" and "your dignity" but in the end, it is essentially reduced to a game of chess. I was well aware of the element of chess in modern day relationships before I started my last relationship. That does not mean, I fully agreed with it.

To me, liking somebody does not need to be guised under a mist of stoicism. If I like something or somebody, I am not going to be afraid or embarrassed to say that. If I like something enough, I think I will get it. If I don't, then it was never meant to be. But I am not going to waste my time thinking about when and how I am going to say what. I also don't think relationship need to be like a game of poker where God forbid, the other person should never see my cards.

I do understand that perhaps my notion of relationships is too idealistic. I mean, why should relationships be devoid of all the guile and ambiguity that surrounds us in other walks of life? I am no expert on relationships, but I think it is plausible that they are nothing but a game of cut-throat chess where one party is trying to win against the others. Gone are the days when a suitor will serenade his lover by singing a love song under her window. Sad but true.

I am just sad that when God finally sent somebody my way, He also sent a bunch of irreconcilable issues. I just wish that I had fallen in love with some nice Indian Sikh girl and had married her.

I do agree with some of you who think that this blog has kind of been beating around the bush. I had felt that several weeks ago. I think the blog has served its purpose of raising some awareness about the discrimination of turbaned Sikh men. Clearly, I can't think of changing anybody's minds. That was not my intent anyway.

In two months, I will turn 28. I have decided that I am never going to date again. My objective of dating was to find a wife and not for fun. Clearly, this process is more painful than the arranged marriage route.

I am now working on a blog related to Medicine and will be spending most of my time on that blog. Perhaps, it will keep me occupied in a more fruitful way.
posted by harry singh at 11:18 PM

50 Comments:
Anonymous said...
Harry,
Why are you giving up? Like I always say: When one door closes the other open. Who know's who could be standing on the other end?
Don't give up on love. And how you said about "the time has gone when a lover seranades his sweetheart" your worng. I met my boyfriend 9 months ago and he does sing to me. It may be cheesy but it's cute and I love it. Sometimes when I get back from work i'll find a bunch of roses on my porch. Guys still kno how to be romantic. I believe that you'll find that special someone. Really you will. Even tho it doesn't seem like it now. Take care,
Ms. H

9:12 AM, June 04, 2006
Anonymous said...
Hey Harry,

I'm sorry to hear that you're so disillusioned with dating, but I think you're wrong to believe that your idea of an honest, sincere romance is too idealistic. A lot of people treat dating like some cut-throat game, but many others actually take their relationships seriously.

From what I gather from your blog, you're new to the dating scene, having focused on building your career instead. I think nearly everyone becomes disillusioned with romance at one time or another when we find reality to be contrary to our expectations. God knows I have, and I'm only 24! Waheguru sends us obstacles so we can learn, right?

Anyway, good luck to you on whichever way you choose to find your lady love.

Cheers,
"Bitsy"

11:55 AM, June 04, 2006
incorruptible dream said...
We all don't leave you in peace at all right?
If the guy is saying I am going to date than everybody is like “No don't do that- instead look for nice Sikh girl"
If he says “I am going give up this dating thing" - than everybody is like don’t give up on love and don't be so disillusioned"
Poor Harry! He can never make his readers happy! :)

Though, I am looking forward for this blog related to medicine. Change is always good!

“When one door closes and usually we look at that closed door for so long that we forget to see another door has already opened for us"
This is always true!

So you turn 28 in two months- you are so young!

2:55 PM, June 04, 2006
Anonymous said...
Hey Harry,
I hope you keep this blog still open even tho your starting a new one related to medicine. It's a great focal point for everyone who reads this blog because through your stories people find their own and relate to your situations. Plz keep the blog open!!!!
Ms A

3:15 PM, June 04, 2006
Anonymous said...
please leave the URL to your medicine blog with us.

11:00 PM, June 04, 2006
ash said...
hi harry
this is my first reading of your blog .i went as far as the last 10 postings.
i am sorry about your breakup.you'll survive . trust me.
you'll believe in love again.just give yourself some time.
about your turban issue i really agree with you.well by the way i am a sikh girl and live in india.and if this brings some solace, let me tell you that things are the same in india if not worse.i have so many sikh girlfriends and most of them dont wanna marry a turbaned guy.

but i have to ask you something,have you ever been attracted to a sikh girl who does not cut her hair..........well anywhere? you know no eyebrows, upperlips and well......the other parts?
if your answer is no, you have absolutely no right to raise this issue.because what a turdan is to a sikh boy,body hair are to sikh girl. if you do not like a practicing sikh girl, as they call it, how can you expect to be liked as a practicing sikh boy???

and if your answer is a yes,well , then i compeletly identify with the issue you have raised.

hope to get a reply from you and others who keep track of your blog soon.

2:23 AM, June 05, 2006
Anonymous said...
ash, i think there is a little variety with those who keep hair. The two main ones are that some keep hair because they truly believe in their religion and carry the Sikh spirit and for these women with kes are only beautiful, and there others who have kept hair because it is something that their parents told them to do and although they look like Sikhs, they want to be live as the popular culture around them and as if they have no turban.

For some reason, the business class Sikhs tend to be very diligent in keeping turbans but not much is expected of girls. This type of thiking is growing in other classes as well.

3:27 AM, June 05, 2006
Anonymous said...
Ash,
Women are supposed to be sensual and men Rugged ! A lot of men around the world actually most actors in US support a beared of somekind and are generally admired by women! ... I dont think women anywhere who support body hair are admired by men!
And for ur Kind information the Only Indian male model ever to have featured in the worlds most High profile Fashion Magazine "Vogue ", was a sardar with a Turban and beared.. Vikram Chatwal had a 15 page cut out in Vogue..

I dont think women with arm -pit harir would ever feature there .....

Yes I agree to u to a certain extent but ur analogy was a bit far-fetched!

Tab

7:51 PM, June 05, 2006
Anonymous said...
to the last anon,
dude we are talking about this a very differnt context here, i get ur point, but thats not what ash meant.

9:15 PM, June 05, 2006
Anonymous said...
to the last anon,
Turban is an accesory that can be removed in Bed!
And u trun into Antonia Bandares! :-)
Body hair on women stay!
sincerely!
Tab

10:27 PM, June 05, 2006
Anonymous said...
In all europe women without armpit/leg hair are not liked and they are not considered adults/puberity, but this is different in North America, where women have to shave even legs.

Hairiness which is considered a sign of adulthood in europe is considered a sign of dirtiness in North-america.

I read this in an English Research Article.

I think european cultural wisdom is right because it is truth that hair comes when a man or a woman pass their childhood.

On the other hand American cultural wisdomm has nothing to with the dirtiness because a shampooed hair is as clean as any other part of our body. We don't cut other parts of our bodies to clean them, so why cut hair alone to look clean. Why not shampoo and perfume them as any other part of our bodies. Clean Shiny hair are the most beautiful thing to behold in our body.

10:42 PM, June 05, 2006
Anonymous said...
Unfortunately, the same Vikram Chatwal that appeared in the Vogue as a turbaned and a bearded sikh doesn't seem to hesitate to cut his hair and then let it grow back again (?) according to his needs. Did you realise this mr Chatwal plays the daddy of the little girl in leading role in ek ajnabee? The guy with no hint of beard and short cut hair is indeed Chatwal. Quite disappointing really, especially if you watch the 'behind the scenes' video clip where, again, Chatwal sports a turban and a beard that probbaly measures about 1.2 mm in lenght. And in another interview, he proudly states that he's never cut his hair...

12:03 AM, June 06, 2006
ash said...
hi everyone
this is ash.
i think we have messed up the whole issue here.we are basically talking about the fact that sikh women do not like sikh boys with a turban and facial hair.
all i wanna say is that if a sikh girl does not respect her own body here,how in the hell do you expect her to respect yours,understand yours and love yours???
if a sikh girl removes her own body hair that means she does not like them and will not like to be seen supporting them.expecting this same girl to like body hair in her man is not practical.as simple as that.
but i think the answer to this whole debate is quite simple.what does your turban mean to you?is it an accesory added coz you have to or you want to?if you have to ........ then complaining that sikh girls dont dig turbanators is hypocrisy.well if you want to.......that means you are a true sikh.and if you are a true sikh you will like a sikh girl who is true to her religion i.e she keeps her body hair and respects them. if she respects her's,she will love yours too.
so it basically comes back to you.before complaining look deep inside.you will find all your answers.

1:30 AM, June 06, 2006
Anonymous said...
I agree with the last poster. You should ideally look for someone who is most like you.

I am a turbaned sikh and I found a gursikh girl through one of these online dating sites(within 2 months). She is just awesome man! Shez the best thing that ever happened to me.

To the people who have previously claimed about an exodus of educated sikh girls from sikhism, she is a counterexample.. AND she is the prettiest person on earth :-p.

I did get all the crap that harry got (caste, turban etc.), but I also found enough girls who were more than happy to date a turbaned sikh.

7:34 AM, June 06, 2006
Anonymous said...
Man or Women I dont know what to say!
Ash!
Men dont wax their body hair , whether cut serds or not .. and the ones who do are Gay! As far as facial hair .. atlease 15-20% of the living men around the world who can have it,, have it ! East asians are devoid of it ,,so they dont have a choice ..... heheh

9:21 AM, June 06, 2006
G said...
To Ash,

In Sikhism, there is no prohibition on cutting/shaving body hair, like armpits and facial hair on women.

Guru Gobind Singh says in his verse

If by keeping hair one can attain God, then all the animals and sheep should have attained God.

The only dictate is that "one must not dishonour her/his hair"

"guru ka sikh keshan di be-adbee na kare" (exact words of hukam nama 10th guru).

Be-adbee does not mean uncut hair, it means well groomed and well kept hair, long enough, manageable enough, short hair destroys human dignity and beauty, therefore keeping the hair short might be dishonour. Similarly keeping hair messy and unstyled might be dishonour.

Thus long, manageable, clean, well groomed and styled hair are consistent with "not dishonouring hair doctorine". Further triming them a little bit to give them good ahape and style may not be dishonour, but it may be an uplifting of their honour.

"G" who wrote comment on rehit, amrit and related issues in this blog.

I wear a turban and keep my beard flowing

9:31 AM, June 06, 2006
g said...
I am also in favour of premarital sex because it is consistent with "ika nari jattee hoy " doctrine.

The word "Nari" in this verse, does not mean wife here, but people have added it incorrectly.

G

9:38 AM, June 06, 2006
Angad Singh said...
mr g ..

if u have so much guts to talk this kind of rubbish i dare to u state yr views and mention yr name and address and we shall see wht happens to you..

fateh
angad

5:07 AM, June 08, 2006
lol said...
harry are you a med student??

6:04 AM, June 08, 2006
G said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:39 AM, June 08, 2006
ash said...
to g
this is the first time i have read these kind of thoughts and i must say i am shocked.

to misquote gurbaani or to misquote its meaning is the biggest paap in sikhi.for your sake i hope you did it out of ignorance.

let me remind you that when you partake amrit the first thing that they forbid is to cut hair.if a person cuts even a single hair from his whole body then he has to take amrit again after paying tankhah ie he is levied punishment by the panj pyaras.that could be anything from social service to excommunication from religion depending upon the severity.

hair anywhere on the body has equal importance.they could be on your head or on your feet.

please dont publish such blasphemous thoughts to suit your own whims and fancies.

9:29 AM, June 08, 2006
G said...
To Ash,

You said,

"to misquote gurbaani or to misquote its meaning is the biggest paap in sikhi.for your sake i hope you did it out of ignorance."

This applies to you, because you misquoted gurbani when you said cutting hair on feet or any other part are forbidden.

Where is the evidence from gurbani for your claim ?

If you don't have any evidence, then you are starting your own religion, and not following Guru's hukam and religion.

If your evidence is "panj piyare", who are most of the times illeterate, then you are following their religion and not follwoing guru's religion.

I follow gurus who were either gifted or well trained in religion, history and languages.

To follow guru's religion, you have to give quotes from gurbani. I have given quotes from gurbani, read over again, to see again.

I stand by the guru's hukam that "guru ka sikh keshan di be-adbee na kare" (10th guru) and that if one can achieve God by keeping hair then animals who never cut their hair are the ones who should have attained God (10th guru).

Hair on feet are not "kesh", hair on other parts of body are called "rom". Their is no hukam with regard to rom, there is only hukam for kesh, with respect to ONLY Be-adbee , which is not equal to hair cut. Check the earlier post for details on this issue.

Thanks for your comment to my post , I appreciate your effort, but I respectfully disagree with them as they are not based on any evidence from gurbani, they are merely based on hearsay from five sikhs, who are not gurus, especially when they order something inconsistent with gurbani.

I request you only preach guru's religion and not your own religion or five Sikhs religion.

12:50 PM, June 08, 2006
Simran said...
"Angad,
Ass hole,

Here they are for you, the guts !

Mr G
S/o Guru Gobind Singh
Address: residing with father at present. "

Mr. G,
I am deeply hurt with following comment that you made on this blog. When did our Guru Ji addressed people with such nasty names. Isn't it ironic you claim to be S/o of Guru Gobind Singh and at the same time you address Angad Ji with very demeaning word.
There is no place for such words in our community.
Please first learn to respect people before you even consider yourself Sikh.

10:12 AM, June 09, 2006
Anonymous said...
Harry
In future is it possible you verify the comments before they are visible on your blog.
Your blog is really bringing out very negative side of people and as a blog administrator it is your duty to filter those negative comments.
I will appreciate your effort.

10:14 AM, June 09, 2006
G said...
Simran ji,

Guru Gobind Singh says "Jabe Bann Lagyo , Tabeh Ross Jagyo".

Therefore, according to gurbani, an attack must be repelled with full force because preservation of life is very important. But I have tried to teach him a lesson only with words, such as asshole, without using violence like he did.

This man threatens people with murder, a murderer deserves even worse words. He asks people's addresses and threaten them with murder when he does not agree with threir views. This is what he said :

"if u have so much guts to talk this kind of rubbish i dare to u state yr views and mention yr name and address and we shall see wht happens to you.."

If he does not agree with people's views, he should counter them with evidence from gurbani rather than asking their addresses for criminal purpose.

Therefore he deserves worse than the title of asshole, he is an evil, a criminal and stupid man who calls gurbani a rubish.

11:02 AM, June 09, 2006
Simran said...
"Guru Gobind Singh says "Jabe Bann Lagyo , Tabeh Ross Jagyo".

Therefore, according to gurbani, an attack must be repelled with full force because preservation of life is very important."

So, you are saying Gurubani tells us to attack people ( I am sorry I don't buy it because Guru Granth Sahib Ji is all about divine love).
Especially after 9/11 we don't need comments ( like these) to contradict the statement that Sikh religion is about love, tolerance and humility.

There is a way to engage in respectful discussion. Why didn't you ask Angad the reasons for threating you. Is it possible you misunderstood him?
Eitherway I think we ought to be respecful of other people.

You both ( G and Angad) have to show that you can engage in respectful dialogue.
Please stop quoting Gurubani to prove your points. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is in no way a scripture about dos and Do Nots. It is our Guru and we bow infront it with full respect. We contemplate on his sweet words and internalize it within our soul. Please don't reduce this holy scripture to one liners.

I am just making a humble request.

11:33 AM, June 09, 2006
G said...
Simran ji,

Issue 1: self defense

Modern Law as well as gurbani permits self defense, that is, a person has right to preserve his/her life and whenever his life is threatened he/she has right to defend by using reasonable force.

Gurbani teaches love as our modern laws do, I agree with you, but in the face of threats to life, gurbani, as well as, modern laws permit us to repel force by force.

Please note that only self defense is allowed; we don't attack, if our life is not threatened, this would be illegal and against gurbani. Sikh religion preaches NON-VIOLENCE against environment, animals as well as humans, but "Jabe Bann lagyo, Tabe Ross jagyo" doctrine comes into play when violence is committed against a non violent person.

I disagree with your "one liner" statement that gurbani disallow self defense. Your statement has no basis in any law or gurbani.

If we allow your principle no one would have right to life and evil people will kill others with impunity; evil people will attack the property of hard workers; evil people will enslave nations and countries of other people, and rapes will reign supreme because evil people would know they will be loved for their actions rather than resisted

Your view is therefore very dangerous to the preservation of lives of others as it is inconsistent with laws and gurbani.

When 5th guru was martyred, our 6th guru took up arms to defend Sikhs; and the martyrdom of 9th guru resulted in 10th guru's embracing of arms for self defense and creation of Khalsa. According to you, 6th and 10th gurus were wrong. I respectfully disagree with you.

Issue 2: Did Angad's statement posed a threat to someone's life?

The answer is CLEAR and UNAMBIGUOUS "YES". Let anyone may not be mistaken that he asked for identity and address and threatened "we will see what will happen to you". He did not ask for address to send a love letter, for he could send when he says "we will see what will happen to you". He made his intentions clear enough.

2:14 PM, June 09, 2006
Anonymous said...
"According to you, 6th and 10th gurus were wrong."

I never said our gurus were wrong.

I wonder if human nature prompt us to make assumptions about others

8:28 PM, June 09, 2006
G said...
Anon above , AKA Simran,

I reproduce here your words wherein you said anyone who attacks (in self defense) is wrong because gurbani teaches love.

I maintain attack or use of force is permitted in self defense only.

Since you did not make any exception so "anyone" includes 6th and 10 guru also who attacked in self defense. SO they were also wrong to attack in self defense according to you. After refering to a verse in my post, you said anyone who attacks (in self defense) is wrong :

"Guru Gobind Singh says "Jabe Bann Lagyo , Tabeh Ross Jagyo".

Therefore, according to gurbani, an attack must be repelled with full force because preservation of life is very important."

So, you are saying Gurubani tells us to attack people ( I am sorry I don't buy it because Guru Granth Sahib Ji is all about divine love).
Especially after 9/11 we don't need comments ( like these) to contradict the statement that Sikh religion is about love, tolerance and humility.

9:18 PM, June 09, 2006
G said...
Simran ji or anon ji,

You state that use of force in self defense is not permitted because gurbani is all about love.

Since 6th and 10th guru used force in self defense, according to your principle they were wrong.

According to you anyone who uses force in self defense is wrong.

I respectfully disagree with you because there is no basis of your principle either in gurbani or in modern laws (which permit use of reasonable force in self defense).

Now you can see, I did not make any assumption because according to your principle 6th and 10th guru were wrong, if they had used force in self defense because gurbani is all about love.

9:30 PM, June 09, 2006
Simran said...
Mr. G
I was refering to Guru Granth Sahib Ji and you refer to Dasam Granth Ji ( Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Bani).
Again I say Guru Granth Sahib is a scripture about divine love. I just have problem with refering someobody with a nasty name and calling yourself son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Are we really sons and duaghters of Guru Gobind Singh Ji when we display arrogance and no respect for others. Our Guru Jis were without ego and we on the other hand are full of ego . The tragedy is that we fail to realize it. Instead we go around claiiming ourselves sons and duaghters of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Above all, our Guru Ji fought for justice, freedom, and equality.

10:02 PM, June 09, 2006
Simran said...
Your life was not in danger with a online message. All you have to do is tell Angad " I think you are trying to threaten me and this in no way is a acceptable behavior"

Why call somebody ******* and at same time refer yourself son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji?
For minute sit and think about what Guru Ji went through in his life. He never called people with such degrading names ( not even Aurangzab). Here you can't even handle an online comment in respectful way.

10:07 PM, June 09, 2006
G said...
Simran ji,

I can give you evidence from Granth Sahib wherein you will find use of force principle in self defense: "Kabir, sura so pahchaneye jo lare din ke het, purja purja kat mare kaboh na chade khet."

So your claim that guru granth sahib is all about divine love (and not about use of force in self defense, truth and justice, has no basis either in guru granth sahib, or in dasam granth , nor in any modern laws.

Let me make it clear that dasam granth and guru granth are consistent with each other. 10th guru did not write anything which was inconsistent with guru granth sahib.

For this reason, 10th guru's bani chopayee and Jap sahib are two of the daily nitnem banis of the sikhs. You cannot deny dasam granth or 10th gurus bani, such as "Jabe ban lagyo, tabe ross jagyo." Be careful, please, when you deny 10th guru or dasam granth.

Issue 2:
Can someone threaten life on cyber space ?

In law uttering threat on cyberspace is a criminal offense. It is just equal to face to face threat. This kind of threat is punishiable at law, one goes to jail, and this kind of behaviour is criminal at law. Sorry I cannot use soft language for a criminal who threatens someone's life.

Assuming that my life was not threatened, I did not use any force to repel, I only used words to warn the threat monger.

If I show any weakness to the aggressor by using soft rewarding words, weakness will invite aggression. I have right to self defense and preservation of my life according to any canon of law gurbani and dasam granth.

Issue 3: language: What kind of language can be used against the evil?

Gurbani mentions :

"Loon Harramee gunah gar begana allap matt ". (Guru granth sahib).

Thus in guru Granth sahib, Loon Harramee (Bastard), gunah gar (Evil criminal), begana, alap matt is used for the deserving person.

By the way read 10th gurus bani Jafar nama and look for the language he uses for Auranzeb.

Thus there is no prohibition on use of language for evil criminal person.

Thus I respectfully disagree with you that

1. My life was not threatned by cyber message because in law it is a threat.

2. one cannot use some measure short of force, such as harsh language, to repel threat.

10:59 PM, June 09, 2006
ash said...
to g
in reference to your comment on hair,
you mentioned earlier that you keep you beard flowing.why do you do that?coz according to your doctrine only hair on the head i.e kesh are to be kept unshorn and the rest i.e rom need not be bothered about. so your beard aka rom has no significance at all.right?

when guru sahib created khalsa he did it so that sikhs have a different identity from others and you can easily recognise a sikh among millions. if you do away with body hair ,according to your theory,[which includes beard ,
and facial hair in females]what identity is left of sikhs?will you still recognise them anywhere?
they will simply merge in the crowd of humanity.

what was guru sahibs motive behind making us keep our hair? a sikh is supposed to live under the divine will of god.the hair on the body are under the creative will of god.
a sikh is to maintain his sabat soorat under all circumstances.that is why hair on the head and hair on the feet have equal importance.if hair on any part of the body is shorn that is in defiance to god.

about your words about panj pyaare , let me remind you that guru sahib said that wherever you see my panj pyare you will see me. did he say that panj pyare are to literate only,or' must be trained in language history and religion'?

"pingal parbat paar pare
khal chatar bakita"

these lines of gurbaani mean that if god wants, he can make somebody without legs cross a mountain.he can make an absolute dumb person become a vidwaan.


guru harkrishan sahib kept his hand on the head of a mentally retarded ,deaf and dumb illiterate man and this man explained the meaning of whole gita to a learned pandit who had challenged guru sahib.
it is about faith ,g, it is about faith.

3:13 AM, June 10, 2006
G said...
To Ash,

GOD'S WILL:

With respect, I want to ask you, if cutting hair is in dafiance of God's will, then why do you cut nails ?

KESH:

The 10th guru's hukam pertains to be-adbee of kesh. For women Kesh are head hair; for men kesh are head and facial hair. Rest of body hair are rom. You need not cut them, its your wish, but their is nothing wrong if you cut them.

Be-adbee of hair occurs when a person keeps them unclean, unperfumed, ungroomed, undressed, or messy etc; Be-adbee does not merely occur by cutting or trimming them for grooming and dressing, this will be dignifying them, not dishonouring them. This is the true Sikh religion and its identity which 10th guru commanded and demanded when he ordered "guru ka sikh Keshan di Be-adbee na kare".

Making a person bald by shaving his head was considered dishonour in guru ji's days, so its clear that guru ji did not want Keshan di Be-adbee by shaving one's head.

PANJ PIYARE:

If any of the panj piyare are illetrates, dumb or lame, but they are vidwan or have power to heal by their miracle touch, and they can climb the mountains even when lame, then they are acceptable.

However the tregedy is that most of panj piyare cannot cure their own illness what to talk of curing the world's sickness. Most of the two legged panj piyare cannot cross a city, for their belly's are so big, what to talk of climbing mountains.

Many panj piyare cannot even read or write, having failed grade 10 many times, what to expect of reciting Gita from them.

In order to become guru's image, panj piyare must be "Piyare to guru", not merely any panj humans (e.g. evil, criminal, illetrates and so on).

How can a society be led by a grade 10 fail person ? In a society, where educated people are led by uneducated men, one will find a government of donkeys. It is about time we only follow either extraordinarily God gifted panj piyare (even if uneducated, like Sant Bhindranwale) or we follow educated and superbly wise panj piyare.

But if we want a govenment of donkeys, then we are free to choose uneducated men as our leaders !

4:20 AM, June 10, 2006
Anonymous said...
G ,ARE YOU AMRIT FROM THE EARLIER POSTS?\
YOU ARE CRAPPIN,,,, TALKING RUBBISH


HARRY PLS START FILTERING THESE COMMENTS, I BEG YOU
AND CONTINUE BLOGGING THERE ARE A MAJORITY OF US WHO STILL WANTS TO HEAR YOU



JOSH
KESHDHARI SIKH

11:27 AM, June 10, 2006
Anonymous said...
g
you need to be institutionalised.you make absolutely no sense.in fact you sound confused and deranged yourself.

7:00 PM, June 10, 2006
Anonymous said...
ash and simran
i completely agree with you.but you are banging your head against a wall.g does not know what he is talking about.stop bothering with him.

7:03 PM, June 10, 2006
ash said...
to g
kesh are a living part of body.they comprise of living cells.
while nails are dead cells,nails are a way of discarding waste by the body.
nails are akin to sweat ,urine etc
while hair are a body organ
i am a doctor, i know what i am talking about.

and since when did the definition of kesh differ for man and woman?
and exactly where did guru sahib mention this?i told you earlier , please dont create things to suit your whims and fancies.

anon i understand what you are saying but if i stop answering back to him he will think that what he says is right and that i agree with him.that is the only reason i am replying back.although i completely agree , it feels like banging my head against a wall........

7:26 PM, June 10, 2006
Simran said...
"By the way read 10th gurus bani Jafar nama and look for the language he uses for Auranzeb."

I have read Zafarnama and Guru Ji does not use langauge that you use in your comments.

"Let me make it clear that dasam granth and guru granth are consistent with each other. 10th guru did not write anything which was inconsistent with guru granth sahib."

So, why did not Guru Gobind Singh Ji included Dasam Granth Bani in Guru Granth Sahib.

"If I show any weakness to the aggressor by using soft rewarding words, weakness will invite aggression. I have right to self defense and preservation of my life according to any canon of law gurbani and dasam granth."

Guru Arjan Dev Ji and Guru Teg Bhadur Ji did not show any weakness by accepting the will of Waheguru. I have great respect for all our Guru Jis. So, do not make statements that I deny Dasam Granth Ji or Shri Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Again, in your case I have problem with calling somebody with very demeaning name and calling yourself son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Why can't you accept that you could have used alternative way to answer Angad's comment.

8:17 PM, June 10, 2006
G said...
Simran ji,

I disagree with you that guru granth sahib and dasam granth uses sweet language for sinners and therefore I should use sweet language for the threat mongers. Here is evidence:

Guru ji uses language such as dusht and papee for harnakhsh in guru granth sahib and also in 10th guru's chopyee, "hamre dusht sabeh tum ghawoh", In Zafarnama he calls Aurangzeb a deceitful, oath breaker who will go to hell.

Thus, I will not use alternative words for a criminal nor reward him with sweet words, for this will encourage him to continue his bully business and murder threats.

A person who threatens someone's life without any reason deserves such words. I did not attack him nor said any bad words to him, so what right he had to threaten me? Rahter than responding to my post he threatened and therefore he rightfully deserved such lable for his criminal behaviour. If you (or me)will threaten someone in the midst of peacful discussion , you will also get the same lables, you will not get rewards for threatening people. NOWAY.

Weakness invites agression:

By the Death of 5th and 9th guru, the sikh gurus showed that weakness invites torture and killing. Thus 6th guru errected akal takhat, a simbol of political and military power, in front of harimandir, the spiritual center. And the 10th guru raised army to defend sikh nation.

Guru gobind singh was given gurship by the 9th guru. Any word from the mouth of guru is gurbani. Thus any bani from 10th guru's mouth in dasam granth, written by 10th guru, is gurbani and guru's hukam. So you cannot say you will follow only granth sahib and not dasam granth or 10th guru for that matter.

By the way dasam granth is itself larger than all the banis of all sikh gurus combined, so 10th guru kept it separate. But he included its banis in preperation of amrit and ordered sikhs to include chopayye and Jap sahib in daily nitnem. All words in dasam granth are consistent with granth sahib becasue dasam granth is also guru's gurbani. So follow it.

12:28 AM, June 11, 2006
G said...
Ash ji,

I respectfully disagree with you that hair are living organs and nails are dead cells. Infact both hair and nails are dead cells.

Before I accept your evidence as a doctor, I would like to ask your area of expertise. Clearly you ought to be a dermatologist if your evidence is even admissible.

Even if you are a dermatologist, other dermatologists and medical dictionaries and rest of the world's dematology authorities disagree with your claim. Here is the definition of hair from various medical authourities:

1.Hair is made up of dead cells that combine into thousands of strands. ...


2.Hair, which is made up of dead cells filled with keratin (a protein found in nails and outer skin).

3.It is the protein that also makes up the nails. ... The hair shaft is made up of dead cells that have turned into keratin and binding material, ...

Cotrary to world's dermatology authorities, you claim as follows:

"kesh are a living part of body.they comprise of living cells.
while nails are dead cells,nails are a way of discarding waste by the body.
nails are akin to sweat ,urine etc
while hair are a body organ
i am a doctor, i know what i am talking about".

Ash ji, please present your expertise and medical source of your claim. Or else accept the authourities mentioned above.

Kesh (definition for men and women):

Definition of men and women is logically different because biology of both is different, therefore, men have long kesh not only on head but on their face also whereas women do not have long kesh on their face. Long hair are Kesh, whereas short/tiny hair are "rom", which means small hair outlet. Quote from gurbani: "Gurmukh rom rom har dhayaveh". Here rom is refered to bodily hair. Note that gurbani does not say gurmukh kesh kesh har dhiyaveh because body hair are not kesh, therefore , they are rom.

Conclusion:
For all the above evidence and reasons, I conclude that you have failed to explain why we cut nails when it is in defiance of God's will to cut hair, according to you.

I assert that if we can cut nails , we can cut body hair also, because guru's hukam pertains to "kesh" only not "rom". "Guru ka sikh keshan di be adbee na kere" is the exact hukam. BeAdbee or dis-honour to Kesh means unclean, untidy, undressed, ungroomed, stingy hair, it does not merely means cutting hair for grooming and dignifying them. Grooming means honouring them , it does not mean dishonour to hair.

1:21 AM, June 11, 2006
Simran said...
g
"So you cannot say you will follow only granth sahib and not dasam granth or 10th guru for that matter."

I simply asked why is not Dasam Granth included in Guru Granth Sahib?

when did I write this statment. Why do you assume something totally different from what I wrote in my last comment.

7:50 PM, June 11, 2006
G said...
Simran ji,

Of course you said you follow dasam granth and 10th guru. And I "did not assume" otherwise than what you said.

I only said you "cannot" say you "will" follow guru granth sahib and not dasam granth or 10ht guru.

I didn't say , you "DID DENY" 10th Guru or dasam granth , but I said, you "CANNOT DENY" 10th guru or dasam granth. "Cannot deny" connotes future act, but "did deny" indicates past act.

Your allegation is, therefore, incorrect as I said you "cannot" deny 10th guru rather than saying you "did" infact deny..

AS to why 10th guru did not include dasam granth in guru granth sahib, there might be many reasons, but I gave you one of the reasons in my post, perhaps you missed , so I reporduce it again for your convenience:

"By the way dasam granth is itself larger than all the banis of all sikh gurus combined, so 10th guru kept it separate. But he included its banis in preperation of amrit and ordered sikhs to include chopayye and Jap sahib in daily nitnem. All words in dasam granth are consistent with granth sahib becasue dasam granth is also guru's gurbani. So follow it".

8:33 PM, June 11, 2006
Patrick said...
high expectations and putting pressure on oneself are ingredients for disappointment.

just have fun, keep your eyes and ears open, and for crying out loud, don't say anything rash like "i will never date again, ever". sheesh, you are 28 and highly educated. don't close any doors.

now that you've given up, i'd not be surprised if something positive develops.

5:05 PM, July 13, 2006
swamphen said...
Hi G

R u a lawyer of some kind?

Anyway I am glad to see that there is someone rationale out there (key humanistic characteristic, difference between an animal and human being-ability to rationalise.
Im impressed with your 'evidence-gathering' exercise.
it is people like you that will ensure that religions like Sikhism are relevant in society.

8:13 PM, July 24, 2006
dianne_lone said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4:27 AM, August 04, 2006
dianne_lone said...
Don't give up! I know someone is there for you. I have been looking for a guy to date in webdate_dot_com.. I know you'd find him soon. Don't lose hope.

4:28 AM, August 04, 2006
jazy said...
Harry,
there is no easy answer to your question. But in my opinion, sikhs have to find the answer in ourselves first before blaming others for all the discrimination. I do not support any type of discrimination but you must realize that a few things get kidof irrelevent with time and it happened with every religion. But some of the religions are just too much resistive to any change. You know you can not except everyone to be highly intellectual to realize and even know about other religions and faiths. For most of the guys of low intelligence like me, a person or for that matter a thing which look different is a good source of entertainment or a way of giving vent to hidden hatered.

10:29 PM, October 07, 2007
jazy said...
Harry,
there is no easy answer to your question. But in my opinion, sikhs have to find the answer in ourselves first before blaming others for all the discrimination. I do not support any type of discrimination but you must realize that a few things get kidof irrelevent with time and it happened with every religion. But some of the religions are just too much resistive to any change. You know you can not except everyone to be highly intellectual to realize and even know about other religions and faiths. For most of the guys of low intelligence like me, a person or for that matter a thing which look different is a good source of entertainment or a way of giving vent to hidden hatered.

10:30 PM, October 07, 2007
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